Episode 233

How Your Caregiving Experience IS Business Training (Stop Undervaluing It) | Julie Cole

Published on: 13th May, 2026

What would it look like to build a multi-million dollar business while raising six kids, advocating full-time for a child with autism, and navigating everything that nobody put in the business plan?

That's exactly what Julie Cole did, and she didn't do it by following the standard playbook.

Julie is the co-founder of Mabel's Labels, a brand she started almost 23 years ago with her sister and two college friends when her eldest son was diagnosed with autism at three years old. She left a career in law, started making labels in a basement at 2am, and built something real, not because the timing was perfect, but because she figured out what her actual capacity was and built around that.

In this conversation, Julie and Nikita get into the conversation most business advice skips entirely: what actually has to shift when you're a mom, a caregiver, and an entrepreneur all at the same time, and why the skills you're already using at home are more valuable than you think.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

  • Why capacity is the first conversation, not the last: before strategy, before offers, before anything else, you need to know what you can actually carry and Julie's story shows exactly what happens when you get honest about that first
  • How the skills you're already using as a caregiver translate directly into business: advocacy, research, negotiation, flexibility under pressure — these aren't soft skills, they're the exact skills that build something sustainable
  • Why entrepreneurship gets romanticized and what the real version looks like: Julie is direct about what those early years actually looked like, and it's not TED talks and wine nights
  • How building a values-led company culture protects both your business and your life: From results-only work environments to neurodivergent hiring, Julie built a company that worked for real humans living real lives
  • What the "care gap" actually means for women entrepreneurs: Whether or not you have kids, the invisible load is real, and building a business that pretends otherwise is building on a weak foundation
  • Why visibility creates credibility, which creates loyalty: Showing up — even when life is heavy, even when the pace feels impossible — is not about hustle, it's about trust

⭐ Enjoyed this conversation? Leave a review and share it with another mom who's building something — she needs to hear this one.

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Transcript
Speaker:

Nikita Williams (2): If you're a woman

in business feeling like your personal

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responsibilities pull you away from

entrepreneurial success or that your

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real-life skills that you've experienced

or accumulated over time do not translate

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to the bottom line or to your corporate

ladder, then this episode is for you.

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I'm joined by Julie Cole, lawyer

turned label maker, entrepreneur, and

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mom of six who reveals how the skills

honed in caregiving are not just

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transferable but actually foundational

to building a successful business.

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We challenge the idea that

your business must be separate

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from your life experience.

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Listen for how caregiving develops

critical skills while integrating

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your life and business creates

better company culture as Julie

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shares from her company and how to

stop undervaluing your unique path.

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So stay tuned.

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Are you tired of hearing business

advice that completely ignores what

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real life looks like when you're

navigating chronic illness, autoimmune

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disorders, flare-ups, medical

appointments, and just life life-ing?

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Business with Chronic Illness is for

entrepreneurs who know they're capable

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of building something meaningful,

but need a way to do it that actually

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works with their body, not against it.

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This podcast brings you honest

conversations with founders, CEOs, and

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other bosses, sharing their strategies,

adaptations, and lessons they've

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learned while building businesses

alongside chronic illness, including

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what worked, what didn't, and what

they wish they had done differently

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before burnout forced the lesson.

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I'm your host, Nikita Williams, a globally

ranked podcast host and entrepreneur

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who's built my business while navigating

chronic illness and helping others do

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the same without sacrificing themselves.

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I created this show to open up the

conversations most business spaces avoid.

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The promise of Business with Chronic

Illness is simple: to show you that

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you can build a thriving business

with chronic illness and autoimmune

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disorders without sacrificing your

health, your peace, or your profit.

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You're not behind, you're

building differently, and

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you're in the right place.

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I am super excited to

have Julie on the show.

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We are going to be talking about a very

important topic, which is caregiving.

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Caregiving and what does that look

like as an entrepreneur, as a mom,

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as a, as a wife, as a person, and

you're taking care of somebody else.

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So Julie, I know you have

so much experience in this.

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I know this is part of

your own personal story.

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Please share with us, where

does this look like for you?

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Where did this caregiving aspect of

approaching business come into your life?

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Julie Cole: Yeah.

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So it's interesting, you know?

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Like, you think often women particularly

start businesses for very, you know,

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different reasons, and often it is

lifestyle, and for me, that was the case.

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And it's like you, you know, needed

some more flexibility, and for me,

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that came as a result of my eldest

child being diagnosed with autism.

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So originally, I joke that

I'm a recovered lawyer.

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Um, so the...

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So my business, Mabel's Labels,

I started it with three...

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Actually, my sister and two

of our friends from college.

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And Mabel's Labels started

for a couple of reasons.

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One was, like I said,

my son was diagnosed.

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He had only just turned three.

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The research told me that, you know,

if one parent really commits and we do

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all the early intervention and we work

really hard, then one day he might move

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out of my house, which is my end goal.

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And, um, so there was that, like, just

wanting to be able to provide for him,

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advocate for him- Yeah ... get him to

his sessions, all that sort of thing.

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And life in the traditional workforce

is not necessarily suited for

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women, moms who want to do that,

or any parent for that matter.

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It just usually does fall

on us, let's face it.

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So true.

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That's just facts.

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So that's when, you

know, I went to the gals.

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I said, "Look, we've had this really

good idea for a business, and,

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you know, Mac just got diagnosed.

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One was on a mat leave."

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Like, everybody was kind of

all over the place, and we're

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like, "Well, let's just do it."

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So we started doing our

research and development.

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So it really was the two things, you know,

the, the lifestyle and having a good i-

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idea and bringing, bringing that together.

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So, um, yeah, it was the

flexibility I was looking for.

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And also, you know, he is my eldest child.

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He had only just turned three.

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He already had two younger siblings.

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I have six kids.

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So it was a very busy household

As it was with or without autism.

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Nikita Williams (2): Wow.

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I mean, all of those things

add texture to business advice.

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I think it adds a filter to what decisions

you decide to make, who you decide to work

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with, and I know a big part of your story

is community, support, building founders.

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How did that shape the way that

you structured your business?

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Julie Cole: Yeah.

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I think for us, like, it was pretty

unique having four co-founders.

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And for anyone out there who has a

business and maybe has one partner,

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you're probably going, "What?"

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"Is that like...

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That is craziness having four."

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Because of course you have lots of

ideas and lots of opinions and lots

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of feisty conversations, but you

also have four different brains-

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Nikita Williams (2): Mm

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... Julie Cole: four different skill sets.

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You have division of labor, so, you

know, I didn't have to do it all.

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Mm.

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You know, one person could be

like, "Okay, I'm gonna research

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this machinery, and I'm gonna talk

to the bank, and I'm gonna do..."

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So we could really divide and

conquer, and also that we were

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able to provide each other...

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Because especially 20, almost 23

years ago when we started, long

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before podcasts and social media, the

entrepreneurship grind was very lonely.

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Mm.

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So, and I saw this with my solo

entrepreneur friends, particularly

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in the mom entrepreneur space.

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You know, they're working out of

their basements or their garage or

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on a laptop somewhere, and it can be

a lonely, it can be a lonely space.

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So for the four of us as well, we were

able to provide each other with support.

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We were able to divide risk financially

by us all contributing, which felt

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a little more comfortable as well.

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But also the fact that this was,

like, my sister- Mm ... and our

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two friends who actually ended up

marrying my brother, and I have a

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young uncle, so we were all family.

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Oh.

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So they also were aligned with- Mm

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wanting the best for my son, right?

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Yeah.

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And wanting the best outcome, so

understanding the reason I made,

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you know, the leap from traditional

workforce to entrepreneurship.

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And, uh, like you say, like built,

it was like a built-in community-

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Mm ... when back in those days,

there were no online communities.

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There might be, like, awkward

in-person events sometimes-

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like with your local chamber of commerce.

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But again, that stuff was very

hard because, you know, when you're

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raising a, a young family, getting

out to go to do that sort of

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thing can be, can be really tough.

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So it was like, you know, building our

own community and then, of course, like,

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that just, you know, women founders, we

just, you know, kept building community.

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We ended up with a huge, like, you

know, online presence and, you know, I,

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I was a mom blogger from the way back

days and a huge, you know, following

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on social media when, once that hit.

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So we just brought that community from

the four of us to the entire company,

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and it just became our company culture.

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Nikita Williams (2): I love hearing

that because I think- Often, you know,

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I started my business back in 2017

online, and we did have social media.

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We did have Facebook.

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We did...

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We didn't have Instagram yet, but

we did have Facebook, and so there

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was this kind of built-in ability

to connect with people in different

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ways that you weren't used to.

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But I think even still today when

I talk to women, there's resistance

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around having that support system.

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I wonder for you what felt like, if

there was anything, what felt like

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the hardest thing to kind of- Yeah

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figure that aspect out in being

a mom, taking care of this new

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situation that you're still trying to

figure out, it's very new, and then

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bringing in other people and their

situations, even though they're family.

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What felt like the hardest thing?

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Julie Cole: Yeah, I think, you know,

for a lo- there's a, there's a few

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things at play, I think, in those

early days of entrepreneurship.

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And, and I, I'll say this as a

warning for those who are like,

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"Oh, I've got a great idea."

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I, I do think entre- and I'm sure you

can attest to this, entrepreneurship

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tends to get romanticized a bit.

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Ugh, yes.

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And, you know, everyone thinks it's gonna

be like TED Talks and getting invited

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on your podcast and, and book, you know,

speaking events and stuff like that.

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But, uh, you know what?

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I, I have to say, I do a lot of that

now, but back in the day, it was a lot

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of, you know, putting the kids to bed,

going to my sister's basement, making

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labels till 2:00 AM, getting up at 6:00

AM with the kids and doing it all again.

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So the...

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it was, you know, it wasn't like,

you know, putting the kids to bed,

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grabbing a glass of wine, hopping

on Netflix and chilling out.

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Like, you know, it was a real struggle, so

you had to manage your own expectations.

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And then I think also if you have a f-

a family like a spouse or, you know,

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children, you have to manage theirs

too, 'cause they need to understand,

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look, we might not be going on holidays.

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Like this is feast or famine, right?

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Mm.

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Like, this is...

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We might not get the new car.

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We ha- we'll have to make

decisions around our new situation.

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So I do think before anyone

goes into this, one of the hard

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things can be is actually knowing

what entrepreneur looks like.

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Mm.

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And it doesn't look like what a

lot of people think it looks like.

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It is not glamorous.

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And, you know, that financial

piece too, like you really

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have to know your finances.

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Mm.

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You gotta know what you're going into.

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You gotta know where you're

getting the money from.

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How are you gonna budget this?

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How is it gonna make sense?

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Can you do it?

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Do you have the capacity?

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Do you have a business plan?

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Can you work together?

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I do think you made a good point that

sometimes asking for help is hard and, you

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know, we don't wanna do these things, but

I actually think women are better at this.

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And I think for me, having

that partnership group, we

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were just like, "Who cares?

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We don't care if we look dumb.

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I'll ask anything."

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And I've said this to

my kid, "Nos are free.

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Just ask- Mm ... 'cause the worst

that's gonna happen is they'll say no."

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So, you know, we all,

we used our networks.

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We made sure, you know,

we know somebody in CPG.

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We know a IT nerd who

can make us a website.

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Mm.

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We know...

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Like, we do know these

people, so go out and ask.

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So I, I think those early

challenges really are about, like,

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understanding the lifestyle change- Mm

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understanding, you know, the, the

economics of it, the how are you gonna

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finance it, how are you gonna plan it,

and how are you gonna fulfill it too.

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Because I...

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Another thing I do find with

entrepreneurs- Is, you know, we're really

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great at the early stuff, you know?

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Mm.

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But then our ADD kicks in.

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Because it's huge in the

entrepreneurship community, so then

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the follow-through and the process.

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So we like that early

scrappy startup stuff.

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Soon as we've got spreadsheets

around us, not so much.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, you know, if you don't have that, if

you're not great at process, you're not

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great at following through, make sure you

hire somebody or partner with somebody

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who has skills that you don't have.

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Nikita Williams (2): Yeah, and

you know, that, you made me think

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about while you were talking about

that in business, I feel like

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that is the case with caregiving.

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Like, I feel like you have to

do the same thing in the way you

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care, and I can imagine with your

son, you know, there's the...

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You kind of developed those skills in, in

that space that can translate into yours.

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So what did that look like for you?

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Julie Cole: I 100% agree with

what you just said there.

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I gotta tell you, like, I was, I

was just thinking today, and I do

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think about this often because, you

know, when I, when the business was a

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startup 23 years ago, so was my family.

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You know, I had a bunch of little babies.

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Nikita Williams (2): Yes.

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Julie Cole: A- and, and now, like, you

know, we've gone through that growth,

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and, like, every time, whether it was

with my family, with the children, or

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with the business, I thought I knew what

I was doing, there would be a change.

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Suddenly, you know, we have

eight employees, so we need to,

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uh, know something about HR.

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And then suddenly I'm like, "Oh,

wait, they're not babies anymore.

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Now they're in school.

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Now I know, I gotta know about school-age

things and, and look up where they can

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play ice hockey and things like that."

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So as soon as you think

you know what you're doing,

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whether it's with your family-

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Nikita Williams: Mm

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Julie Cole: and your caregiving

or your business, it all just...

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I'm always like, "Just get comfortable

being uncomfortable," 'cause as soon

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as you think you got it, something's

gonna change, and you're gonna have

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to relearn, make new connections,

especially with caregiving.

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I mean, you know, especially, like,

your kid ages out of a certain care,

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and then you're like, "Oh, my gosh,

I, I can't have that pediatrician.

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I can't go to that children's hospital

anymore," all of these things.

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And we get attached.

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I mean, you know this.

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You get attached to your people.

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You get attached to your educators.

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Like, when my son had to start high

school, I'm like, "But, uh, you

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know, I've worked so hard on these

relationships with the educators, and

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I've invested so much, and now I have

to start over, and where do I want him

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to go, and who's gonna be the best fit?"

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And it's like research is a full-time job.

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Oh.

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Advocacy is a full-time job.

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And, you know, like, I know my son

was getting what he needed because

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they didn't wanna see this ugly mug

walking in the office every day saying,

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"Why isn't he getting what he- he's

entitled to 'cause here's the Education

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Act-" Mm ... "and this is what..."

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You know, like, also a lawyer mom, right?

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Yes.

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So I was

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Nikita Williams (2): like, and also,

I was like, also- Yeah ... yeah,

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she's a lawyer, so she knows what

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Julie Cole: she's talking about.

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Nikita Williams (2): Yeah, yeah.

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Julie Cole: Yeah.

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And that's it.

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But it is, like, uh, like, to do the

research to know how to advocate- Mm-hmm

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... and to take the time to be able to go

to all the school meetings, all the

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appointments, that's the flexibility and

the thing with caregiving that you need.

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Nikita Williams (2): Yeah.

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It is so amazing that we don't

realize how much those skillsets as

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women translate to our businesses.

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I find that a lot of women I speak

to often in these conversations,

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they're like, "You know what?

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You're right.

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That does he- that did help me here.

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That did help me-" Yes ... "lay this

groundwork, think about it a way."

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And I think I like to bring this

aspect out in conversations because

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there are people listening, there

are women listening that are li-

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hesitant because they feel like they

don't have that corporate background,

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or if they do, they don't have it

in the way that they wish they had.

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But the very aspects of what you're

doing at home and what you have done to

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support your community, your people, are

the skillsets that I believe, especially

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even more so as we go into AI and

everything that's coming in the world,

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that is actually the things that are

gonna mean the most important thing ever.

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Julie Cole: 100%.

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Nikita Williams (2): You know?

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Julie Cole: 100%.

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Yeah, I totally agree.

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And I think also, because, you know,

I did for that hot minute go, "Oh

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God, why did I put myself through law

school- ... and do articles and do this?

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And it was so hard, and wah, wah, wah.

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And now all I do is make

labels and change diapers."

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But I gotta tell you, like,

we have to remember that.

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And I mean, that's why

I say recovered lawyer.

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It's kind of tongue in cheek, right?

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Like, you know, because why I

say that is because we don't know

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where the path is gonna take us.

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Mm.

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We don't know what's gonna happen.

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We don't know if we're

gonna get a chronic illness.

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We don't know if we're gonna have a child

with, you know, who, who's neurodivergent.

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We don't know if...

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We don't know.

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There's no crystal ball.

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And all of the things, you

know, that bring us to that

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windy path are not for naught.

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They're important.

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Everything I learned at law school, I

could bring negotiating with these six

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kids, and also, you know, to my business.

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So I always say, like, don't

feel like you've wasted...

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Like I, I even say to my kids,

I've got five in college right now.

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Buy more labels, everyone.

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Like, th- I, like, 'cause they

worry about what am I gonna do?

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What am I gonna do, right?

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What am I gonna be when I grow up?

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I'm like, jobs when you get out of

college are gonna be completely different.

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Did anyone know what AI was

when I was studying law?

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No.

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Did anyone know what, like, a

community manager was or, like, a,

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you know, a social media manager

was when I, when people were

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studying marketing 20 years ago?

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No.

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I'm like, just study what you

like, learn, and take those skills,

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and they'll be transferable.

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So don't ever regret the path,

even if you land at that, at that

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windy one you weren't expecting.

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Nikita Williams (2): So true.

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So I wanna shift us for a

minute, because we know that

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your life affects your business.

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I personally think this.

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I think business is personal in every way.

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I don't care if you are not...

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If you don't think that,

I don't know what's...

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Anyway.

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Julie Cole: What life are you living?

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Not mine.

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Nikita Williams (2):

I'm like every- Not mine

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aspect of business affects a human or

a person or a community, whether we

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want to, like, realize that or not.

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And so in what ways have that personal

aspect of your business really shaped

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:

the relationships, the partnerships,

the, the technology, the, the things

353

:

you are choosing to use in your

business, and how does that really work?

354

:

Like, people feel like you cannot

be personal in your business.

355

:

It just has to be business business.

356

:

What does that look like for you?

357

:

Julie Cole: Oh my gosh, I have

so much to say about this.

358

:

I mean, I'm with you,

business is personal.

359

:

Like to me, b- my, like Mabel's

Labels is a, is a lifestyle.

360

:

Like right now- Mm-hmm ... it's

actually a holiday where I am.

361

:

But I mean, I'm like, if I can hop

on a podcast with you, I'm going to.

362

:

Like this is...

363

:

But then maybe tomorrow, like I

don't plan on going to the office.

364

:

Right.

365

:

Whatever.

366

:

Yeah.

367

:

You know?

368

:

Like we, it's a, it's a lifestyle

and I think, you know, for us,

369

:

one of the beautiful things about

starting your own company is that

370

:

you can also start a culture.

371

:

Nikita Williams: Mm.

372

:

Julie Cole: A company

culture that you like.

373

:

And we knew when we started this company

that we could work at weird times and in

374

:

weird places and be highly productive.

375

:

Mm.

376

:

So we built a company around that.

377

:

No parent at our work has to like pretend

they're sick because they wanna go to

378

:

watch their kid in a Christmas play.

379

:

Go, tell us about it.

380

:

Mm-hmm.

381

:

Like, nobody minimizes their Facebook.

382

:

Like, just as long as you're getting

your work done, we don't care.

383

:

Uh-huh.

384

:

You know?

385

:

Just we put productivity above

everything else, and not presenteeism.

386

:

Mm.

387

:

And I think, you know, the way

that kind of innovation has been

388

:

brought to our products, you know,

creating a new product, has also

389

:

been brought to our workplace.

390

:

Mm-hmm.

391

:

So we have a very happy workplace.

392

:

Mm-hmm.

393

:

We have...

394

:

And when people are happy at work, and

you give them flexibility, and they

395

:

just focus on their productivity, I feel

like they're also very entrepreneurial.

396

:

Mm.

397

:

Which means they feel like

they have skin in the game.

398

:

They are also, for even like, especially

the tech people, if you give them,

399

:

if you bake in time for them to play

around in their tech worlds- Mm-hmm

400

:

then your business inevitably does

better, 'cause they figure out

401

:

a better way of doing something,

or they make a contact that can

402

:

help with this system or whatever.

403

:

Yeah.

404

:

And it's really important, A,

to keep them happy, and, and B,

405

:

it's, it's good for your business.

406

:

So I think by, you know, having a

really innovative products and having

407

:

a really innovative workplace based

on- You know, business is personal.

408

:

Mm-hmm.

409

:

And valuing relationships and

baking that right into our core

410

:

values, and core values that aren't

just, like, hanging on a wall.

411

:

Like, we interview by them,

hire and fire by them.

412

:

These are the things.

413

:

So that's why we just, you know, from

a business perspective, we don't have,

414

:

um, we don't have a lot of turnover.

415

:

Mm.

416

:

People like, you know, like working with

Mabel's, and it, it's, it's just a lot

417

:

of fun in it's a very special place.

418

:

And everyone's valued.

419

:

And the other thing that's really

important too is that, you know,

420

:

having a child on spectrum, we do

a lot of neurodivergent, uh, hires.

421

:

Oh.

422

:

So, like, a lot of our su- summer

students are neuro-spicy, and

423

:

they do a great job, and we try

to be inclusive in all the ways.

424

:

Mm-hmm.

425

:

So, um, I think when you bring that

kind of leadership, and I, I think women

426

:

often do bring that kind of leadership.

427

:

Yes.

428

:

We know women leaders and women

entrepreneurs are more philanthropic.

429

:

They have more inclusive workplaces.

430

:

There's a higher level of work

satisfaction in the workplace

431

:

when there are women leaders,

and that's not for no reason.

432

:

Nikita Williams (2): And it is

so true because we understand

433

:

the complexity of living, right?

434

:

We are s- cyclic kind of people.

435

:

We have ups and downs.

436

:

We have great days.

437

:

We have bad days.

438

:

We have kids that have those days.

439

:

We have family.

440

:

We have parents that we're taking care of.

441

:

There's all of these complexities

in the way that we have to

442

:

just show up in our own lives.

443

:

And so for us to build businesses

as if those things don't exist

444

:

is kind of just masculine.

445

:

Julie Cole: Yeah, exactly.

446

:

You know, like- Right?

447

:

It's, it's- ... it's exactly what it

is, and you gotta remember, like, this

448

:

w- this traditional workforce that we

left because it kinda pushed us out.

449

:

Mm-hmm.

450

:

It's because it was built around

men working during the day.

451

:

Well, they had a full-time human

adult at home taking care of all

452

:

of the things- Yeah ... right?

453

:

And it doesn't suit families today.

454

:

And because of the care gap in

that women are doing most of the

455

:

caregiving, we are the default parent.

456

:

We do carry the invisible load.

457

:

And even for women who are non-parents,

we still see that care gap.

458

:

They're taking care of the pets.

459

:

They're taking care of the neighbor.

460

:

They're taking care of elderly parents.

461

:

They're taking care of their

nieces and nephews, their best

462

:

f- their godchild, whatever.

463

:

We still see that care gap

for women who are not parents.

464

:

Yes.

465

:

So, a- and it's funny too, like, when

you mentioned, you know, elderly, I

466

:

even feel like, okay, wow, now my kids

are like, oh, I can take a breath.

467

:

A f- like, a lot of them are at

college, and they're very independent.

468

:

So then what happens when

your kids are that age?

469

:

Your parents are elderly- Yes ... when

your kids are that age, and they, you just

470

:

go from one kind of caregiving to another.

471

:

Yes.

472

:

So it's like we don't ever get a

break- Yeah ... until that time comes

473

:

when our kids are taking care of us.

474

:

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah.

475

:

To that point, though- What have you,

Julie, h- found to fi- and there's

476

:

a, there's so much talk around the

world right now about work/life

477

:

balance and harmony and work/life.

478

:

That's not a thing specifically within,

like, bigger corporations and companies.

479

:

I have my own feelings about it, but I'd

be curious to hear about, like, what type

480

:

of business decisions have you directly

had to make differently because of the

481

:

type of caregiving you are giving to your

family, to yourself, that's probably,

482

:

you know, I don't know, somebody on,

you know, some place that's looking

483

:

in going like, "That is a bad business

decision," has proved to be a good

484

:

decision for you and for your business?

485

:

Julie Cole: Well, we know it has

because we, you know, we for many years

486

:

did a results-only work environment,

and we still philosophically do that.

487

:

Mm.

488

:

And so it's good for the business as

far as, like I said, like retention.

489

:

It's been good for my family

because of the flexibility.

490

:

Certainly, you know, there's

been lots that's been given up

491

:

from, like, a pre-Mabel's, but

I mean, it can't be argued.

492

:

Mabel's Labels is wildly successful.

493

:

You know?

494

:

Like, we do millions and millions a

year in, in business, so you can't

495

:

fight the bottom line on this.

496

:

So you know, uh, for a few moms

who started a, a label company in a

497

:

basement, we showed that this is, this

is workable if you do it smart, if you

498

:

plan, if you, you know, do it your way.

499

:

You don't have to do it like the guys.

500

:

You do it your way.

501

:

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah.

502

:

Julie Cole: And we've

shown you that you can.

503

:

But there's a real problem because

a lot of women, I feel like even

504

:

for me, being able to leave law-

505

:

Nikita Williams (2): Mm

506

:

... Julie Cole: and start a business

came from a place of privilege.

507

:

Nikita Williams (2): Uh-huh.

508

:

Julie Cole: You know?

509

:

I was able to do that.

510

:

I mean, it was tough-

511

:

Nikita Williams (2): Uh-huh

512

:

Julie Cole: but I was able to do it.

513

:

And you know, we don't talk about the

privilege of being raised by parents who

514

:

self-regulate and, and tell you you're

smart and encourage you to be educated.

515

:

And so, I mean, I had

so much going for me.

516

:

I wasn't that brave.

517

:

I never thought I couldn't do things.

518

:

Oh.

519

:

So you know, there's a lot of

privilege in entrepreneurship

520

:

that people also don't realize.

521

:

I mean, you think about, like, you

know, the Kardashians making lipstick.

522

:

Well, everyone's gonna buy it 'cause

everyone knows their name- Yeah ... and

523

:

they have the money to invest in it.

524

:

Uh-huh.

525

:

Right?

526

:

So wealth creates wealth.

527

:

We know that.

528

:

Mm-hmm.

529

:

Right?

530

:

So I think, you know, that's,

um, that's just, just kind

531

:

of, kind of the reality of it.

532

:

But we know for women, the number of

female-owned companies that make over

533

:

$100,000 a year in sales is less than 2%.

534

:

Mm-hmm The amount of funding-

535

:

Nikita Williams (2): Oh

536

:

... Julie Cole: women startups

receive from VC is less than 2%.

537

:

Uh-huh.

538

:

And when you go to sell your

company, women are leaving

539

:

a lot of money on the table.

540

:

Mm.

541

:

Women are not getting in their

exits what the men are getting.

542

:

So we're seeing this systemic thing that

happens, which means we're not getting

543

:

the funding, which means we don't grow

our companies, which means we can't

544

:

sell our companies for the big numbers.

545

:

So we see that this is just

a cycle that's repeating.

546

:

So we need to, like, enough of the fluff.

547

:

We need, like, men, VCs

investing in our companies.

548

:

Where we're getting money now is,

like, when a woman sells her company

549

:

for a bazillion dollars, she's, you

know, giving money to women startups.

550

:

So we need more of that in the pipeline.

551

:

We need to make, you know, a, a, a, a

have in the boardrooms, like, "Don't

552

:

interrupt me," or, "She was speaking."

553

:

Mm.

554

:

Or, "Actually, don't hijack her idea."

555

:

There are all these micro-feminisms

that we need to bring to the workforce.

556

:

And as, like, somebody who starts

a business and provides an en-

557

:

you know, creates an environment

like that, it's, it's quite nice.

558

:

Nikita Williams (2): Oh, I love

how you just said, "Quite nice."

559

:

It's

560

:

Julie Cole: quite nice.

561

:

Nikita Williams (2): So Julie, when

we pull back the camera a little bit

562

:

for you, if you were to go back, i-

and this, very rarely do I get to talk

563

:

to so many, like, to a person that's

started a business way before what we

564

:

see in the social space now, right?

565

:

A lot of the...

566

:

Even now, I feel like just the fact of

social media, there's a lot of privilege

567

:

in the fact that we can literally start

a business tomorrow if you don't have

568

:

one, and have, you know, 500 people

find you, and it's so much easier than

569

:

years before the life that we live now.

570

:

However, with that speed, with that,

you know, expectation, and you've talked

571

:

about this throughout the episode about

putting some real grounded thoughts

572

:

around how you show up and build

whatever you're building, or continue

573

:

to build whatever you're building.

574

:

How have you maintained, and I don't

even wanna get to that p- part first.

575

:

I wanna know the nitty-gritty for you as

a bu- Business owner, founder, uh, just

576

:

an amplifier of what you've created.

577

:

Say to a woman who isn't with that

privilege, who isn't necessarily

578

:

around for people that can potentially

become their founders- Right

579

:

co-founders or have that income, or

they are in a corporate environment and

580

:

they're not sure how to transition into

that, and they are taking care of, you

581

:

know, someone with chronic illness or

neurodivergent spicy or elderly parents.

582

:

What are the things that you feel like

they need to focus and simplify on

583

:

to give them the, the roadway, give

them the roadway to build something?

584

:

Right.

585

:

Julie Cole: Well, I

think it's interesting.

586

:

Like, I think, you know, a lot of women

do have kind of their side hustles,

587

:

and we saw through COVID women having

these side hustles more and more.

588

:

And I had to laugh because I just...

589

:

A friend just posted about, there was

this panel about women and side hustles,

590

:

and they didn't have a single Black

woman on the panel, and it was like Black

591

:

women are the queens of the side hustle.

592

:

Mm-hmm.

593

:

And no representation there.

594

:

During Black History Month-

Yeah ... it was like, what is going on?

595

:

Because the c- contributions that are

made in that space, and because, I mean,

596

:

that grind that like, "I've gotta do this.

597

:

I've got a dream.

598

:

I'm going to d-," you know, and

being, doing all of the things, right?

599

:

Mm-hmm.

600

:

Having always done all of the things.

601

:

Mm-hmm.

602

:

So I think, you know,

there's, there's the, um...

603

:

Oh, now of course, I forget

what you, you had asked me.

604

:

What did you ask me?

605

:

Nikita Williams (2): So what I was

asking is, like, what, what are...

606

:

Someone who's trying to

start right now, main-

607

:

Julie Cole: Oh, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah Okay Okay.

608

:

Yeah, what do they need?

609

:

So I mean, yeah, I think you

need to think about things like,

610

:

what is my actual capacity?

611

:

Mm.

612

:

You know, what, what do I

actually have capacity for?

613

:

Because people from- to me were always

like, "Well, Julie, how do you do it?

614

:

Like, I wanna have six kids

and I wanna start a business."

615

:

I'm like, "No, you don't."

616

:

Like, y- yeah.

617

:

Like, they'll be like,

"Where do you get me time?"

618

:

I'm like, "If you want me time,

this is not the gig for you.

619

:

Like, if you like going to the

salon, if you like to go for, like,

620

:

a little leisurely walk or have

a girls' wine night, do not have

621

:

six kids and start a business."

622

:

So it's not, you know, it,

'cause it ain't gonna happen.

623

:

So I think really understanding,

you know, what your capacity is.

624

:

I think, you know, you can

busily work away at things.

625

:

If you think this is the time, you know,

you're working away at things, it is...

626

:

I mean, it's easier in some ways,

'cause like you said, like, back in the

627

:

day, I mean, social media was awesome

when it came, because our product

628

:

is very word-of-mouth, word-of-mom.

629

:

Moms talk about products we love- Yes

... like it's our full-time job, right?

630

:

So they were talking about Mabel's Labels

at, like, daycare drop-offs and stuff.

631

:

But when social media hit, man, those

mommy bloggers and Facebook moms went

632

:

to town talking about our product, and

it really leveled the playing field.

633

:

Mm.

634

:

To your point, like, all of a sudden,

I'm like, I can, I have access to

635

:

the producer at the Today Show.

636

:

Mm.

637

:

I have access to the editor of

the Parents Magazine, right?

638

:

And you could just join

in conversations there.

639

:

And now, um, that's

all there, and I agree.

640

:

Like, the startup, the barrier to entry

now, like I was at a, a conference,

641

:

Econ North, and these young ones were,

young people were talking about their

642

:

business ideas and what they'd created

in, like, a couple of days, and I'm

643

:

like, in the old days, that would've

taken me eight months to create.

644

:

But because there's AI tools and because

of a lot of other things going on, but

645

:

then you also have that economy of,

like, a lot of people are doing it.

646

:

Yes.

647

:

There's a lot of noise.

648

:

So I think the important thing to do

is to make sure, and this is how we've

649

:

kept our spark after all these years

and why we're such a, such a loved

650

:

family brand, is that we're relatable.

651

:

We're just like every other mom.

652

:

We're visible.

653

:

You know, you gotta get out there.

654

:

You gotta keep turning up.

655

:

Show up, because visibility creates

credibility, which creates loyalty,

656

:

and that is where your customers

are going to keep coming back-

657

:

Mm ... and that's what you want.

658

:

So I think, you know, for that woman who's

thinking about it, think about capacity.

659

:

Think about what you can do quietly on

the sidelines, and then when you're ready

660

:

to go, you get out there, you use every

contact you have, and start turning up.

661

:

Nikita Williams (2): Yes.

662

:

Yes.

663

:

I love that, and I love that

you started off with capacity.

664

:

Not a lot of business strategy things,

conversations we talk about is, that's

665

:

not the first conversation we hear.

666

:

We often hear, you know- Is

it something that people want?

667

:

That's important.

668

:

Yes.

669

:

Is it something that's, you

know, something that you

670

:

can be behind and you enjoy?

671

:

That's important.

672

:

But if you don't have the

capacity for either of those

673

:

things, it's not gonna work.

674

:

Julie Cole: Right.

675

:

It's not gonna work, and if your family

doesn't understand what that's gonna

676

:

look like, and the thing is, when we're

talking from a caregiving perspective

677

:

or a chronic illness perspective or

dealing with the other things that

678

:

other people aren't dealing with, you

know, our capacity is a little impa-

679

:

impacted a little differently- Yes

680

:

to, you know, that young 30-year-old

man who has no family and just is

681

:

like, "Yay, let's go, bro," right?

682

:

Right.

683

:

Like, it's different when you're

in that caregiving capacity.

684

:

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah,

caregiving defines our success

685

:

and our path differently.

686

:

It changes, like, how we view our

personality, how we view our, uh,

687

:

our, our, our, like, our profession.

688

:

Like, what we're going to do, it

changes that, and I think we have to

689

:

bring some, like, normalcy to that.

690

:

I feel like there's a lot of shame and

there's a lot of judgment in this space

691

:

at times around w- that looking different.

692

:

I wonder how have you- Mm-hmm ... seen

that kind of morph more into...

693

:

I don't know.

694

:

Is it a more positive mainstream

conversation now that you see, or that...

695

:

or do you feel like we have- Right

... less conversation about that now?

696

:

Julie Cole: I, I think that we're getting

more conversation about it, because as

697

:

we have more women sort of leaders or

willing, you know, to be unapologetic

698

:

about, you know, we have, you know,

women doing self-advocacy around, you

699

:

know, stuff that they're dealing with.

700

:

Even it's interesting now that I'm, like,

just in that, you know, menopause space.

701

:

Suddenly I'm like, "Oh, yeah, this

generation of women, we're not taking

702

:

that gaslighting that the doctors have

been feeding us- Mm-hmm ... about,

703

:

you know, how we can't have hormones."

704

:

I'm like, "Give me the estrogen."

705

:

And so we'll advocate.

706

:

We...

707

:

You know, we know, yeah, we,

we won't be gaslit, and I see

708

:

that in a, in a lot of ways.

709

:

These conversations are coming out

more, and then we, as we have, like,

710

:

women who are kind of leading with,

you know, no shame in my game, and

711

:

building companies that also create

space for caregiving and honoring it,

712

:

and they're not being shamed around it.

713

:

So it's not like that old boys club.

714

:

We also see...

715

:

You know, 'cause we also see the pay gap.

716

:

You know, women leaders make less

than 80% of what male leaders.

717

:

Mm-hmm.

718

:

We know when...

719

:

You know, even government

representation, there's so...

720

:

Like, we're just not there, so

we need to keep pushing forward,

721

:

turning up in those spaces.

722

:

And I always say, like, "I walk

through that door, and I'm holding it

723

:

open for the woman right behind me-

Mm ... and I'm pulling you through."

724

:

Mm-hmm.

725

:

And we need that from kind of, like,

the next elders who can, like, lead

726

:

by example and raise each other up.

727

:

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah, so true.

728

:

I, I wanna get a little granular.

729

:

I cannot talk today on this for a

second- I like to talk in threes

730

:

about, like, what are we actually

doing to create that space for someone

731

:

who is behind us and is in a room.

732

:

I, I, I've heard this, um, before

where it's like, you know, say their

733

:

names in the rooms that you're not in.

734

:

But how do you say those names?

735

:

How do you get to know those people?

736

:

How do you encourage, you know, those that

are, you know, who over here grinding it

737

:

out, hustling out, whatever it is that

they're doing, caregiving, taking care,

738

:

living with chronic illness themselves,

without, like, exasperating their issues?

739

:

How have you found some

tools or ways of doing that?

740

:

Julie Cole: Yeah, I think

also now with tech, you know,

741

:

people are more accessible.

742

:

So I know, like, for me,

I do a lot of mentoring.

743

:

Mm-hmm.

744

:

Um, and also honestly saying names in

rooms and being like, "I have got somebody

745

:

you need to have on your podcast, and

I actually already have three people

746

:

I need you to have on your podcast."

747

:

And like, you know, and keeping

people front of mind and doing

748

:

things like liking their posts.

749

:

You- there's so many ways just to

encourage to say kind words, to give

750

:

them a tip off, to share their post

on LinkedIn, anything, just to kind

751

:

of keep, you know, raising them up.

752

:

And yeah, and the mentoring.

753

:

And, and paying them.

754

:

Like, businesses, I...

755

:

International Women's Day is coming up.

756

:

I do a lot of speaking

International Women's Day.

757

:

I'm like, you know what?

758

:

This is not a time for our

male allies to be talking.

759

:

Pass us the mic.

760

:

We got the one day.

761

:

Let us all do the talking.

762

:

You know?

763

:

So, you know, I won't go to events and

speak at events when they have, oh,

764

:

we also have males speaking as allies.

765

:

I'm like, "No."

766

:

And you know what?

767

:

If you have a budget for A buffet,

you have a budget to pay me.

768

:

Mm, mm.

769

:

So make sure, you know, that

all- women are getting paid.

770

:

How many freebies are

you asked for, right?

771

:

Mm-hmm.

772

:

Like consulting or speaking

or whatever, and they'll be

773

:

like, "Well, I'll promote you."

774

:

I- women don't need more inspiration

and fluff or pr- promotion.

775

:

We need money.

776

:

Mm.

777

:

So pay us.

778

:

Mm.

779

:

Pay us the money, right?

780

:

Say that

781

:

Nikita Williams (2): again

for the people in the

782

:

Julie Cole: back.

783

:

Yeah.

784

:

You got that

785

:

Nikita Williams (2): right.

786

:

Yes, I agree with you.

787

:

I think there's a lot of different

levels to that conversation alone, but

788

:

I, uh, really appreciate you sh- saying

that because I do think even if you

789

:

are not in the room that you think you

wanna be in, still say people's names

790

:

in the rooms that you currently are in.

791

:

And you never- Yeah ... know

where that might lead.

792

:

You never know how that may help

the person behind you, beside

793

:

you, in front of you, whatever.

794

:

I definitely believe that is

a, a huge part of it, and so.

795

:

Julie Cole: For sure.

796

:

And, like, another easy win is, like,

supporting women-owned businesses.

797

:

My lawyer, a woman.

798

:

My photographer, a woman.

799

:

You know, my baker, a woman.

800

:

Nikita Williams (2): Mm-hmm.

801

:

Julie Cole: I don't bake cakes.

802

:

I have six kids.

803

:

I do not bake cakes.

804

:

I'll make the labels.

805

:

You bake the cakes.

806

:

Let's everybody do what we're good

at- ... and pay each other to do it.

807

:

I

808

:

Nikita Williams (2): love that.

809

:

So if you were to go back in time to Julie

you and be like, "Okay, I'm doing this

810

:

again" ... as a, as a mom, as a caregiver,

as, as, as a new aspiring entrepreneur,

811

:

what advice would you give way back Julie?

812

:

Julie Cole: To way back Julie?

813

:

You know what?

814

:

Not a lot.

815

:

I'd be like, "You know what?

816

:

Just make sure you keep an open mind.

817

:

Y- you got the right attitude.

818

:

You'll be fine.

819

:

The kids are all right.

820

:

You're not saving lives here.

821

:

You're making labels.

822

:

The kids, you know, you don't

need to track them all the time.

823

:

They're gonna come home.

824

:

Like, it's fine.

825

:

It's fine."

826

:

You know, I just think we

make such a big deal out of

827

:

everything, so I think I'm okay.

828

:

I think maybe one thing I

would've done differently is I

829

:

probably would've got help sooner.

830

:

Nikita Williams: Mm.

831

:

Julie Cole: And I would advise,

like, no sh- and I do think women get

832

:

caught in this cycle of like, well,

you know, I know for me it was like,

833

:

well, I left the traditional workforce

so I could be with my kids and do my

834

:

business, so why would I get help with

my kids so I could do my business?

835

:

You know, it just...

836

:

But that's ridiculous.

837

:

So eventually I got a nanny

when my fifth kid turned one,

838

:

and that was three kids, Julie.

839

:

So get the help.

840

:

Have somebody clean your

frigging house, people.

841

:

Mm-hmm.

842

:

Okay?

843

:

I don't, I know, whatever, it's expensive,

but whenever, once every two weeks I

844

:

always say, "If it's too expensive,

feed your kids more Kraft dinner."

845

:

Nikita Williams (2): I love that.

846

:

It's so- That's a great piece of advice.

847

:

I think so true- Get help ... to

the fact of not just in your

848

:

business do you need help.

849

:

Even if you don't have kids.

850

:

I have a good 50 per- 50% in

this audience that listens that

851

:

are moms, caregivers for elders.

852

:

And then- Yeah ... there are

people who are, like, single.

853

:

I call them DINK, double income, no kids.

854

:

And you still need to

855

:

Julie Cole: Need

856

:

Nikita Williams (2): some help-

You need somebody to clean your

857

:

house ... clear your house, because

those things are a part of it.

858

:

Because

859

:

Julie Cole: it's ch- it's also

cheaper than marriage counseling.

860

:

It

861

:

Nikita Williams (2): helps keep

the things, you know, moving.

862

:

Yeah.

863

:

Like, take something off of your plate.

864

:

Exactly.

865

:

Yes.

866

:

You don't

867

:

Julie Cole: wanna become the

Bickersons over, like, countertops.

868

:

Nikita Williams (2): Seriously.

869

:

It's not worth it.

870

:

Life's too short.

871

:

It's not worth it.

872

:

Yeah.

873

:

It's not worth it.

874

:

Yeah.

875

:

Well, I so appreciate you spending some

time with me today and sharing a bit about

876

:

what caregiving has led to your business

looking like, feeling like, and just

877

:

how I really truly love how it's kind of

shaped how you've built what you've built.

878

:

And it's okay, and it works, people.

879

:

I know I've been saying this for, like,

10 years on this podcast, but business

880

:

is personal, and doing it the way that

works for you is never a bad thing.

881

:

It's

882

:

Julie Cole: good for business.

883

:

Nikita Williams (2):

It's good for business.

884

:

So-

885

:

Julie Cole: Yeah

886

:

... Nikita Williams (2): the last thing

I'd like to end off with is, is

887

:

there something in your business

that you thought was true before

888

:

you started that you now believe

was a whole bunch of hogwash?

889

:

Like, it was, like,

890

:

Julie Cole: a lie.

891

:

Ooh, that's a good question.

892

:

Hmm.

893

:

I don't think so.

894

:

I mean, I think for me, it

was so long ago, I don't even

895

:

know what I was thinking.

896

:

You know?

897

:

Like, I was so sleep-deprived.

898

:

My kid had just been diagnosed.

899

:

I, like, literally didn't sleep for

10 years with all those babies, right?

900

:

So I don't really know what I thought.

901

:

I think, I think I thought,

like, "Oh, well, we'll see how

902

:

we go with this," you know?

903

:

Like, but then everything that we

did was to make it a big success.

904

:

Oh.

905

:

Like, we took minutes

our very first meeting.

906

:

Yeah.

907

:

We did a business plan.

908

:

We talked to the right people.

909

:

So it wasn't just,

like, this little thing.

910

:

Mm.

911

:

So try not to maybe think small.

912

:

Ooh.

913

:

Think big.

914

:

But the other thing, too, is that

you've gotta remember that it's really

915

:

important to let go of some stuff.

916

:

Mm.

917

:

You know, I don't know

how to make a label.

918

:

I haven't made a label in 10 years, and

I shouldn't know how to make a label.

919

:

'Cause if I was still in

the basement making labels,

920

:

that would be a big problem.

921

:

Sometimes quitting could be for winners.

922

:

If it's not working, if it's not

happening, you gotta know, I know,

923

:

like, don't cling to a mistake 'cause

you spent a long time making it.

924

:

Mm.

925

:

Sometimes you also need to know

when it's time to wrap it up,

926

:

take all the lessons from that,

and move it to your next project.

927

:

Nikita Williams (2): Mm.

928

:

Mic drop.

929

:

Love that question.

930

:

I love the answers I get at the end.

931

:

Okay, I love that.

932

:

Thank you so much.

933

:

This was, this was great.

934

:

This was great, great, great.

935

:

Julie Cole: Awesome.

936

:

Thanks for having me.

937

:

Nikita Williams: That's a wrap for this

episode of Business with Chronic Illness.

938

:

If you enjoyed this conversation,

be sure to follow the show, share it

939

:

with a friend, and leave a review.

940

:

It helps more entrepreneurs living

with chronic illness and autoimmune

941

:

disorders find these conversations.

942

:

You can check the show notes for links,

resources, and ways to stay connected.

943

:

And if you have a question or story you'd

like to share, visit craftedtothrive.com

944

:

to leave a voice message for the podcast.

945

:

I'd love to hear from you.

946

:

Until next time, remember, you can build

a thriving business without sacrificing

947

:

your health, your peace, or your profit.

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About the Podcast

Business With Chronic Illness: Women Entrepreneurs Navigating Burnout & Autoimmune Conditions
Conversations with entrepreneurs building businesses while living with chronic illness and autoimmune conditions.
Building a business as a woman entrepreneur with chronic illness comes with realities that most business advice never addresses — burnout, unpredictable energy, and the need to put health first while still wanting meaningful growth.
Business With Chronic Illness is a globally ranked podcast featuring honest conversations with chronic illness entrepreneurs, founders, and CEOs navigating business growth while living with chronic illness and autoimmune conditions. Through real stories and practical insight, the show explores how people build businesses that are sustainable, simple, and aligned with their health, not at the expense of it.

Each episode centers on conversations rooted in real experience, covering:
- Health-First Business Growth: growing at a pace that honors your body
- Burnout & Capacity: navigating energy, flare-ups, and rest without guilt
- Simple & Sustainable Business: stripping away unnecessary complexity
- Success Stories: real people redefining what success looks like with chronic illness

This podcast is for entrepreneurs and founders who are:
- Living with chronic illness or autoimmune disease
- Burned out from hustle culture or one-size-fits-all business advice
- Building, growing, or reimagining a business that must work with real life
- Looking for stories and strategies that feel honest, grounding, and possible

Expect thoughtful, grounded conversations, not hype. This is a space for nuance in strategies and execution, for reflection and learning through real stories, not for pressure or performative success.

About the Host
Hosted by Nikita Williams, a globally ranked podcast host, award-winning business coach, and speaker who has built a six-figure business while navigating endometriosis, Hashimoto's, fibromyalgia, and chronic pain. Nikita brings lived experience, deep listening, and a health-first perspective to conversations that are often missing from the business world.
The show has featured respected founders and thought leaders such as Jasmine Star, Danielle Bayard Jackson, Nitika Chopra, Courtney Elmer, Natasha Samuel, and Kinsey Soderberg, alongside entrepreneurs navigating business with chronic illness in real time.

This podcast doesn't offer one-size-fits-all strategies or hustle narratives. Instead, it creates space for lived experience and multiple ways of defining success when the priority is to put your health first now, not later.

- Listen & Connect: Follow Business With Chronic Illness to hear new conversations each month, and join the extended community through reflections and discussions connected to the show, at Built to Breathe on Substack.
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About your host

Profile picture for Nikita Williams

Nikita Williams

Welcome to Business with Chronic Illness — the podcast for women who are building big dreams with limited energy.
I’m Nikita Williams, and I know what it’s like to be living in pain, carrying a diagnosis (or several), and still wanting more — more purpose, more income, more alignment, more ease. After leaving behind a traditional path and navigating the emotional rollercoaster of chronic illness, I decided to rewrite the rules of success. And now? I help other women do the same.
Here, we have honest conversations about what it really takes to build a sustainable, profitable business when your health is unpredictable. No hustle culture. No toxic positivity. Just powerful stories, practical strategies, and mindset shifts that work — even on flare days.
You’ll hear from guests who get it, solo episodes from my heart to yours, and insights I’ve learned coaching dozens of women through launching and growing their dream businesses — on their terms.
Because business is personal. And when you build it that way, it not only becomes easier… it becomes life-giving.
💬 Tune in, take what you need, and know this: You Are Crafted To Thrive.